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Home >> Technical >> Number One sails tuning
07/09/2010 08:13:16

Sebastiano Melmoth
Posts: 0
Hi all,
I've recently acquired a wooden fireball (built from Barker from what I can read on the measurement certificate), in pretty fair conditions. I will need to do some modifications to the rigging, but all in all it seems a good starting point for a novice like me. I'm writing because the boat comes with Number One sails (not really new but still in good shape), and i couldn't find their tuning guide anywhere... Does anybody have that guide, or know where can I find them? From what I could see, Number One doesn't have a website...

Thank you in advance,
Sebastiano



07/09/2010 10:43:27

Nick Hurst
Posts: 0
Sebastiano,

I don't know where you can find a tuning guide for Number One sails, but if you set the boat up for 22'6" of mast rake and 25-35mm pre-bend you won't be far wrong.
Spreader length will depend on crew weight, but 390 - 425mm is in the ball park, Selden Cumulus masts tend to run shorter spreaders than Super Spars M7.

You can look at either the P&B or Norths website for more details.

You probably won't get to modern rig tension numbers on a wooden boat, so don't try. Just sail & enjoy!

Good luck.

Nick.

PS Where are you sailing?



07/09/2010 11:55:04

Sebastiano Melmoth
Posts: 0
Thank you Nick for your advices. 
Mast is a proctor D, if I recall correctly, and the distance from the centreboard pivot to the backside of the mast foot step is around 39 cm (about 15''): shouldn't this make a difference in mast rake? Modern hulls have a distance in the order of 44-47 cm, from what I could verify myself. And again, regarding mast rake: is 22'6" a measure for medium winds? 
I've already checked the P&B website, but those values are for modern boats, and I don't really know how to adapt them for my old wooden sweetie :) 

Greetings from Italy ;)



07/09/2010 12:15:57

Tim Saunders
Posts: 0
Hi 

check out the technical section of the website for tuning guide links. Sorry no Number 1's info. Although if someone has one we can put in on the site.

http://www.fireballsailing.org.uk/page/page.php?editorial_id=18




08/09/2010 07:57:18

Andi Wyer
Posts: 0
On a similar theme, any sort of tuning guide from the late 70's / early 80's would be useful. The mast rake etc measurements in all the modern guides don't translate to an old Rondar or my Mountfield sails.



08/09/2010 09:48:05

Mike Ratcliffe
Posts: 0
I have to agree with Nick. 
I have a couple of Number One sails for my wooden Winder which I still use when not using the Kevlar one! The basic set up applies fine from North or P&B and that as long as you can get these reasonable basic  settings all will be ok. You won't be able to run modern rig tension anyway but you'll still 'fly' and have a blast! 

I've learnt that on a boat this age the 'fine' tuning from the modern boats won't make as much of a difference as your sailing skills (or lack of them!).
Let's face it a 'hotshot' in an old boat will still finish higher in the fleet than most of us with a brand new boat with a perfect set up!



08/09/2010 09:59:12

Chris Turner
Posts: 0
I have a copy of the tuning booklet published by UKFA in 1991.  It lists rake measurements, spreader lengths & angles and pre-bend used at the time.  The most commonly used masts then were Proctor D, Epsilon & Stratos; Superspar M2, M3 and M7.  

Rather than try to list all the measurements here I'll liaise with Tim to see if the entire booklet can be posted as a reference document for classic Fireballs.

Chris Turner
Fireballs 6 & 66



08/09/2010 10:24:09

Sebastiano Melmoth
Posts: 0
Thank you all for your support. 
The booklet Chris is referring to seems utterly interesting, since my boat was built around that period (I think it's 1985). It would be nice if this could be shared. 
And on this matter, I remember some old guys at the local club talking about a legendary booklet named "Faster Fireballs". I say legendary because I searched all the web for infos about it and couldn't find any... Does anybody knows if such a reference ever existed at all?

Regarding the rig tension, I can safely reach 180 Kg on my boat. Is it ok, or this is too much and can be dangerous? In this case what would be a safe value, and what would be the difference on the boat handling? 



08/09/2010 10:40:02

Nick Hurst
Posts: 0
Its great to see folks with older boats still wanting to sail & get the best out of them.

Maybe some advice could be forthcoming from someone more knowledgeable than me on the effect of the centreboard bolt (for example) being out of position when compared to new(er) boats. I'm guessing that a wooden Winder will be pretty similar in all the important dimensions to a composite or 'white' one, but other builders may vary.

Most Fireballers know that the mast foot should be as far forward as you can get it, and I shifted the mast step on my Severn ('cos it was loose anyway) to achieve just that.

(Is the front bulkhead position a measurement point?
 Can the mast foot ever be too far forward?)



08/09/2010 12:09:02

Tim Saunders
Posts: 0
Hi all

Happy to get stuff uploaded to the site

I might have Faster Fireballs somewhere

anything else please send scanned info to

[email protected] and I will try and get it uploaded this week

Tim



08/09/2010 12:22:57

Sebastiano Melmoth
Posts: 0
Hi Tim,
any chance you are willing to share (scanned) or even sell the "Faster fireballs" booklet? 



08/09/2010 12:39:43

Chris Turner
Posts: 0
I also have a copy of 'Faster Fireballs' so if Tim hasn't got one we can see about uploading mine.

Chris turner
Fireballs 6 & 66



08/09/2010 14:04:14

Mike Ratcliffe
Posts: 0
We've run to 300lbs our wooden Winder 13795 and could go higher if we wanted but whether that'll be fine for all older boats?? Winders are known to be strong however but if in doubt ... don't I guess! 
There seemed no point in going higher anyway as this had an effect on how the strut moved and there was a diminishing return on the rake the more tension was added. The benefit of this extra tension was dubious as between 22-8 and 22-5 was achieved anyway. The extra tension also placed extra strain on the older blocks and pulleys and when 'tight' there was less ease and range of adjustment.  



09/09/2010 22:03:19

Tim Saunders
Posts: 0
ok here is the 1991 UKFA Tuning Booklet




09/09/2010 22:07:28

Tim Saunders
Posts: 0
Our second offering is the 1979 Edition of the Classic 'Faster Fireballs'
Many thanks to Chris Turner for sending me these. Enjoy




09/09/2010 22:07:28

Tim Saunders
Posts: 0
Our second offering is the 1979 Edition of the Classic 'Faster Fireballs'
Many thanks to Chris Turner for sending me these. Enjoy




10/09/2010 08:44:19

Sebastiano Melmoth
Posts: 0
Wow...
Thank you guys, I've been searching for these booklets for a long time!



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